Curse

sweet555 · Jul 04, 2009, 09:30 AM // 09:30

I mean WY! was so so so overpowered. it costed little adren, and even with a few points in tactics, you can maintain it till you get the adren needed for the next WY. Tactics was never a good attr to start with, and with lackluster skills under tactics, could be a very good reason as to why people never use tactics. Its more of a pve thing IMO

dusanyu · Jul 04, 2009, 11:30 AM // 11:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by vamp08

Lol, is there anything sins nowadays CANT do better than warriors?

live longer than two seconds

Paul Dawg · Jul 04, 2009, 06:54 PM // 18:54

Yeah, all I'm saying is that I'd LOVE to throw watch yourself onto a hero and get party-wide +21 to +24 armor for only 4 adren. The problem is that the skill doesn't really pay off at low tactics, and I can't justify giving a hero anything like 12 tactics when there's not much else they can do with it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sweet555

I mean WY! was so so so overpowered. it costed little adren, and even with a few points in tactics, you can maintain it till you get the adren needed for the next WY. Tactics was never a good attr to start with, and with lackluster skills under tactics, could be a very good reason as to why people never use tactics. Its more of a pve thing IMO

Arkantos · Jul 04, 2009, 08:09 PM // 20:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by dusanyu

live longer than two seconds

Considering that an assassin with CA has 90-95 armor, that's a pretty incorrect statement.

laksa and curry · Jul 09, 2009, 08:08 AM // 08:08

Agree with TS tactics is more or less crap..... I hope they buffed it..

Regulus X · Jul 15, 2009, 11:40 AM // 11:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

Considering that an assassin with CA has 90-95 armor, that's a pretty incorrect statement.

CA = Critical Agility amirite? CA is an enchantment that refreshes to the top of the list every time, hence it can be stripped.

Warriors have 20 AL vs physical (irremovable) and Sentinels/Knights (also irremovable).

So, I agree with Dusanyu when he said "live longer than two seconds" because assassins have nothing viable anymore ever since Isaiah Cartwright the Skill Exterminator took out all the most popular skills in '08 for all the whiney, unskilled and rather special kiddies in Guild Wars to [still] get killed, now just slower [in PvP].

AngeliqueSynner · Jul 15, 2009, 01:18 PM // 13:18

I'm not the biggest fan of Tactics myself.
The best use I've found for the line is durring the Dragon Festival quests I chained "Charge!" and "Fall Back!" For constant IMS and let my roomate do the killing.
12 Tactics 12 Command [11 Second Charge, 9 second Fall back.]
As opposed to the "FB!" and "Incoming!" which at 12 command has a 2 second downtime.
n__n
Other than that, I don't use the line at all.

Chieftain Heavyhand · Jul 15, 2009, 03:54 PM // 15:54

Tactics defensive skills could use some buffage, best thing would be to lengthen times and decrease recharge time so they can be kept up. The duration of the defensive skills make them useless.

Xenomortis · Jul 15, 2009, 03:59 PM // 15:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regulus X

CA = Critical Agility amirite? CA is an enchantment that refreshes to the top of the list every time, hence it can be stripped.

The fact it cannot be reliably buried is pretty much the only balancing factor and it's quite a small one.
If you're running with orders, aegis or any other enchantments (and you probably will be), it's less likely you'll be targeted for stripping and when CA is stripped, the skill will probably have nearly done recharging.

_Nihilist_ · Jul 15, 2009, 09:26 PM // 21:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regulus X

Warriors have 20 AL vs physical (irremovable) and Sentinels/Knights (also irremovable).

Wrong.

Sentinel's Insignia: +20AL vs. Elemental damage while Strength is 13 or above. If you only have 13 Strength, and you suffer from Weakness, you lose the bonus. Same goes for Atrophy. There are a few skills/Conditions that can reduce your Attributes during play, which can cause you to lose your Insignia bonus from Sentinel's.

**Marty Silverblade** · Jul 16, 2009, 08:48 AM // 08:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chieftain Heavyhand

Tactics defensive skills could use some buffage, best thing would be to lengthen times and decrease recharge time so they can be kept up. The duration of the defensive skills make them useless.

The duration does not make them useless. It's the simple fact that they're defensive. Wars are there to blow stuff up; regardless of how long they last or how good they are defensive skills should not and will not meet a Warrior's bar.

_Nihilist_ · Jul 16, 2009, 09:06 PM // 21:06

Warrior "Defense" = moar killinstuffz pl0x

Bobby2 · Jul 16, 2009, 11:42 PM // 23:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrael_Eveningsong

Warrior "Defense" = moar killinstuffz pl0x

**** tactics and move Charge! to strength imo

Jaigoda · Jul 17, 2009, 03:16 PM // 15:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regulus X

CA = Critical Agility amirite? CA is an enchantment that refreshes to the top of the list every time, hence it can be stripped.

Warriors have 20 AL vs physical (irremovable) and Sentinels/Knights (also irremovable).

So, I agree with Dusanyu when he said "live longer than two seconds" because assassins have nothing viable anymore ever since Isaiah Cartwright the Skill Exterminator took out all the most popular skills in '08 for all the whiney, unskilled and rather special kiddies in Guild Wars to [still] get killed, now just slower [in PvP].

The vast majority of enchantment removals occur at the immediate aggro'ing of the mob, so you can simply stack up with a few cover enchants and go in safely. Afterwards, it becomes very scattered and is usually targgetted at other players. The only major problem I've had is against Incubus, which will rape any enchants and covers for them that you have.

And if you want to talk about armor insigs, then I could say Assassins have 110 armor, due to CA and Nightstalker insignia. That's exactly 6 armor less than a warrior with a shield, and 10 more than one without (hammers, scythes). Yes, it's fairly conditional and removable armor, but if you pay attention to what's going on, it's really easy to prevent it.

I think you need to listen to Tyrael. He actually knows a lot about warriors, so if he says Assassins can compete with warrior AL then you should probably realize that your argument is incorrect. Now, I'd rather we don't keep going on this topic, lest this thread ends up like that one DPS thread that got locked.

Tactics used to have a few good skills in there, IMO. But eventually over time those skills lost appeal and were also nerfed due to abuse by para's. I mean, before SY, WY was actually a pretty decent skill, but it took a hit because paragons were putting too much use to it, and it was a great emanagement skill. Also, almost every warrior back in the day used to run healsig it seemed, though again that's been dropped for more omgwtfbbqdomoge.

Basically, it was a mediocre line, but a few skills have seen use by warriors and/or secondary wars. Shields Up! was a decent skill, so was WY before para's nerfed it... But overall, it just wasn't ever really a great line.

**Marty Silverblade** · Jul 17, 2009, 10:44 PM // 22:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaigoda

Also, almost every warrior back in the day used to run healsig it seemed, though again that's been dropped for more omgwtfbbqdomoge.

This, as well as the fact that Lion's Comfort is a better selfheal.

Bobby2 · Jul 17, 2009, 10:59 PM // 22:59

Canceling LC to draw interrupts never feels quite as right though

Jaigoda · Jul 17, 2009, 11:27 PM // 23:27

And yet LC is actually a pretty terrible self-heal, and hardly anyone ever runs it.

_Nihilist_ · Jul 18, 2009, 01:23 AM // 01:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby2

**** tactics and move Charge! to strength imo

YES PLEASE (then I might actually use Charge! more often

)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaigoda

I think you need to listen to Arkantos. He knows a lot about warriors, so if he says Assassins can compete with warrior AL then you should probably realize that your argument is incorrect. Now, I'd rather we don't keep going on this topic, lest this thread ends up like that one DPS thread that got locked.

Fixed it for you Jaigoda, I'm not taking credit for Arkantos' words. You know me, I'm biased as Hell towards Warriors (and a few Forum members have had to keep beating things into my Bull's-Striking head to get points through

).

If you were referring to this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrael_Eveningsong

Wrong.

Sentinel's Insignia: +20AL vs. Elemental damage while Strength is 13 or above. If you only have 13 Strength, and you suffer from Weakness, you lose the bonus. Same goes for Atrophy. There are a few skills/Conditions that can reduce your Attributes during play, which can cause you to lose your Insignia bonus from Sentinel's.

It should be general knowledge in the Warrior subforum, thanks to Marty Silverblade's kick-ass Sticky, what is unconditional armor vs. what is conditional armor for Warriors in gear (including Insignias); I just said it first in this Thread.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaigoda

And yet LC is actually a pretty terrible self-heal, and hardly anyone ever runs it.

Don't mistake "hardly anyone runs it when they have a great backline and could use skills to kill instead of self-heal" for "hardly anyone ever runs it". LC is a better self-heal than Healing Signet, if only since you don't have to split your attributes between Strength and Tactics. LC is not only a self-heal, but an Adrenaline engine as well. Healing Signet is... double damage if you ('re dumb enough to) get hit while using it. Since most Warrior builds don't utilize Signets (or if you are using a Signet in your Build, it takes minimal effort to time your use of LC), the Signet-disabling drawback of LC is far more negligible than the double damage taken drawback of HealSig.

Axel Zinfandel · Jul 19, 2009, 12:04 AM // 00:04

Basically, There's a few things to balance Tactics for PvE

first of all, All those blocking stances that end on use of skill, end on attack, ect? Functionality change. A warrior that isn't attacking in PvE is fail, and the "Tank" aspect is fail as well, unless running a SF Sin. There should be at most two GENERAL USE blocking skills, one adrenal and one energy, neither of which should be maintainable unless using "Dwarven Stability" or the energy stance should be low recharge and low duration, so that prolonged use will diminish energy fast.

Riposte/Deadly Riposte need to trigger on other things too, and the adrenal cost of Riposte should be raised accordingly. It'd be awesome if this were to work like a sort of self-use Reversal of Damage

Watch Yourself!: Remove recharge. GFTE is removed now too, revert this back, or change functionality to prevent partywide damage, much like pre-changed Life Sheath.

Soldier's Stance: Change it. Soldier's fury is more appealing, even to warriors.

Victory is Mine!: Lower recharge or adrenal cost

Shove: The fact that I completely forgot this elite exist until two seconds ago is proof enough of it's failure.

Drunken Blow / Desperation Blow: CRACKED ARMOR

Charge!: Raise duration

Auspicious Parry: See Riposte, and raise cost to 2/3 adrenalin

Steady Stance: Lower recharge

Other then that, I'm churning around the idea of making Tactics increase duration of shouts and/or stances per-level, and making it a Warrior primary only bonus. Don't know if it's a good idea or not

That's my two cents at least